Yelling at players: Kids in the 21st Century do not know what volatile coaches are like — from Woody to Bobby to Patrick to Emil to Bob — coaches over the years

… discipline vs. "mental abuse," yesterday and today

Coaches who yell at young athletes are often vilified — or adored, depending upon who is doing the evaluation. Coaches who push or grab players are often viewed in another category, but they are also often protected, depending on the situation.

The truth is that today coaches do not yell as much as those in my playing days in the 1960s did. And, not all coaches then yelled a great deal.

However, yelling was a different form of communication for many of the World War II generation — or even the one before that. High school coaches believed that they had to instill discipline in players — just as coaches today have to — but in order to do that, the players had to have some fear of the coach.

That is what is different today. Most coaches today try to reason with players and cajole them, yelling when necessary but not using it as a primary tool.

Woody Hayes: Four national titles, but volatile

So, young athletes, meet Woody Hayes and Bobby Knight. Both are legendary coaches from the Midwest, coaching primarily in the Big Ten.

A legendary football coach at Ohio State University, Woody was a yeller and screamer, but he was very successful. So, if fans of teams loved him because he won games, administrators at schools often looked the other way.

According to History.com, “In his 28 seasons with the Buckeyes, Hayes compiled an overall record of 238-72-10, including 13 Big Ten titles, four national championships, and four appearances in the Rose Bowl. His 238 wins placed him ninth on the all-time list of top NCAA Division I coaching victories (as of 2007), and he was inducted into the College Football Hall of Fame in 1983.”

The history website did, however, note that Hayes’ temper was legendary, “Despite his prodigious coaching ability, Hayes (who died in 1987) is also remembered for his volatile temper and violent outbursts, which sometimes threatened to overshadow his teams’ performance on the field.”

When you win four national titles, people are more willing to overlook your yelling. However, when Hayes punched an opposing player from Clemson in the Gator Bowl on Dec. 29, 1978, Hayes slugged a player, Charlie Bauman, in the throat after he had intercepted a pass and had been run out of bounds by the Ohio State bench late in the game, one that they lost, 17-15.

It was caught on national TV, which inspired national outrage. Hayes, then 65, never coached again.

Bobby Knight was unbelievable on many levels

Bobby Knight won three national titles for the Indiana University Hoosiers and became an idol in that state. However, he also had a volatile temper, one that finally got the best of him.

He was accused of choking a player in practice in 1997, and when video of the incident surfaced, the school laid down the law. Except that legends do not always have to obey laws.

Knight was not fired until 2000, and this was because he continued to defy those who were his superiors in regard to his behavior. In announcing his decision, Myles Brand, the president, said that his behavior was “uncivil, defiant, and unacceptable, according to an ABC report of his firing.” This behavior, though, did not really have anything to do with his words or actions toward players. He allegedly threw a vase at a secretary — seriously — in the athletic office. This was one of many instances in which he had defied authority.

He also threw chairs during games, one of which resulted in criminal charges being filed against him. However, it was his yelling and volatile temper that players knew best.

That did not end Knight’s career, though, as he was hired at Texas Tech and coached there seven years. 

[I have links to videos at the end of this piece.]

Patrick Chambers’ suspension and Tom Izzo reaction

What precipitated my thinking about this was an action by Penn State men’s basketball Coach Patrick Chambers. In an intense Big Ten game at Michigan earlier this month, Chambers pushed a freshman during a timeout. The push was really slight, but he was yelling at him, apparently trying to motivate him.

However, the Penn State athletic director suspended Chambers for the action. Remember the Penn State is still reeling from the Jerry Sandusky fiasco, so sometimes their reactions may be a little severe.

However, the interesting reaction is the one from Michigan State Coach Tom Izzo, who has been much more successful than Chambers. In a media gaggle, Izzo criticized the Penn State action, “That was a joke. It was a joke [and] I hate to say it, if my high school coach pushes my son on something that … but if we’re that fragile … But do I think a guy should be suspended for (pushing a player)? Put it this way: I talked to some people in high-up positions — ADs and that — lately that didn’t agree with that. God bless if it was Penn State and that’s what they had to do. God bless the Big Ten if that’s what they had to do.”

What Izzo seems to be saying, though his comments were a little disjointed, is that pushing a player like Chambers did, should not be a big deal. It is a minor push compared with Knight’s grabbing a player by the throat. But, he also says that if a high school coach had pushed his son like that, it would not be a big deal. 

Not all parents would agree with that statement.

To some other parents of high school players, yelling and pushing are a big deal

My high school experience

When I thought about coaches yelling at players, I was reminded of my high school basketball coach, Emil Salony, who used to yell at us regularly. Coach Salony was of the WWII generation, and yelling was the preferred mode of communication.

I had to become conditioned to this, but once I did, it was not a big deal — unless you were the one being yelled at by Coach. I was not usually an individual who received that criticism. Those who did still remember it.

However, we all realized that this was just his way of communicating. He was not the only coach from that era who communicated that way. Many coaches did, and some even grabbed players and threw them across the locker room. That was common in the 1930s, 40s, 50s, and less so in the 60s when times were a-changing.

Bob Gongloff

However, I also remembered this because I saw an item where a very successful Cambria County basketball coach was suspended prior to Christmas. In a release to WTAJ-TV in Altoona, Bishop Carroll High School CEO Lynn Weber said this, “Mr. Bob Gongloff, head coach of Bishop Carroll Girls Basketball, is on a leave of absence.”

Other media said this, “Gongloff was placed on a leave of absences prior to Bishop Carroll’s game Wednesday [Dec. 19], and according to parents of players on the team, an investigation into possible mental abuse of his players is ongoing.”

The story did not identify the “parents of players on the team,” and did not identify what constitutes “mental abuse.”

However, that is what the parents have been calling Gongloff’s action.

Gongloff has won approximately 450 games in his career, including two state championships in 2002 and 2003 and two state runners-up finishes. He was forced out, and though he resigned, he said publicly at the time that he was being pressured by parents and others to not yell at the girls so much.

I covered quite a few games coached by Bob Gongloff, and he does yell, sometimes even when he is winning by 20 points. Some find that unnecessary, and that appears to be the mental abuse that some parents are complaining of today. 

Gongloff resigned after his first stint at Carroll in 2004, and then returned a few years ago. He apparently said at the time that his resignation was due to parental pressure forcing him out. He said that people have talked to him about changing his approach -- apparently not yelling as much -- but was unwilling to do so.

The Lady Huskies reached the PIAA state semifinals the past two seasons and were expected to compete for the District 6-A title this year. However, it appears that his coaching career may have ended. A story in the Altoona Mirror on Jan. 7 intimated as such, though BC has not taken any definitive action. That story also indicated that Gongloff’s daughter had taken over for a game and then resigned. It said that they were not certain who was coaching the team now.

As reporter Mike Boytim wrote, “Gongloff has always been hard-nosed and tends to concentrate on minor flaws in lopsided victories rather than outwardly celebrate everything that went right. It has been a coaching strategy that’s paid off in wins and getting the most athletically out of his players for more than two decades. But it may also be what leads to the end of his career.”

Apparently, three or four players may have left the Bishop Carroll team in this dispute, so it is serious.

Times, they have been a-changing

So, while Woody and Bobby may be gone, coaches still yell — and they will continue to do so. However, what is the line between yelling and “mental abuse”? I am not certain.

As a coach, I did yell, but tried to keep that on the practice field, and not during games. Coaches have different approaches, but kids today probably do not know what Woody Hayes and Bobby Knight were like because few are like that today.

Yelling in and of itself is not bad. However, demeaning players and pushing and punching them is. The line between what is acceptable and what is not is sometimes difficult to discern.

I once asked a high school football coach who had spent about 30 years in a Cambria County high school how much more difficult parents and athletes are to deal with then — in the mid-2000s — than they were when he started in the 1970s.

His answer: “Let’s just say that I am happy that I am at this end of my career right now.” You can read through the lines with that statement.

You Tube Videos

Video of Bobby Knight choking Neil Reed

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fm3YFFjj5y8

Video of Bobby Knight throwing a chair

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Qxu5cvW-ds

Video of Woody Hayes slugging player

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wEVJyf0ft3I

Penn State Coach Patrick Chambers pushes player

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xV-qird6Pw8